PD 6 AP ENGLISH LANGUAGE
Excellent discussions for the past few days!
Let's think about archetypes and how they are significant in Wiley Cash's writing. Remember, an archetype is a common pattern repeated throughout many stories (example: Christ Figures, the battle between good and evil). Below is a list of common archetypes in stories. The Quest or Journey The Task The Hero The Blind Character The Shared Meal Death and Rebirth Battle Between Good and Evil The Unhealable Wound The character who thinks they are normal until told they are a hero The Return Home Mentor-Pupil Relationship The Threshold Guardian (Gatekeeper) Father-Son Conflict Hunting Group of Companions The Side-kick The Evil Character with an Ultimately Good Heart The Creature of Nightmare The Outcast Damsel in Distress The Beautiful but Dangerous Lady Friendly Beast The Shadow The Devil Figure The Unfaithful Wife Light vs. Darkness Nature vs. Civilization The Underworld What archetypes do you recognize in your Wiley Cash book?? In the comments below, choose one or two or two archetypes and explain how you see them played out in your book. Make sure to explain why you think the use of this archetype is significant to the story/overall themes of your novel. Your response should be at least 5-6 sentences. After posting, you should reply to two of your peers with a quality 2-3 sentence response (add to the discussion). Your initial reply is due by Saturday night (12 midnight). Your replies should be completed by Monday night (12 midnight).
43 Comments
Sarah Hartle
9/1/2017 10:29:35 am
In "A Land More Kind than Home", I specifically see a death and rebirth happening with Jess's grandfather. He becomes the man he should've been, the father he should've been, to Jess. Another archetype present is the unhealable wound, which is literally Julie's arm and hand (from where Ben shot her). This also comes out in Jess's feelings towards his mother, which may never be normal again, since she tried to leave; but also his father's death, which may take just as long to heal, if ever. The clearest archetype in this story is Carson Chambliss being connected to the Devil. He is burned, which brings clear fire-imagery, and the fact that he is likely the strongest choice for antagonist as well. The fact that when he finally dies, everyone is freed from the church and how blind they've been to his negative worship resembles the fall of a tyrant.
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Maggie Piazza
9/1/2017 10:46:03 am
Sarah H. made a very good point with the death and rebirth of Jess's grandfather. The book mentions that in the past, his grandfather was a feared man and he was not a good dad to his son Ben. I believe that there were references that he was violent towards Ben when Ben was younger. However, after Stump's death he takes in the role of being a new father figure for Jess and essentially does take care of man. He re birthed into a positive aspect in Jess's life after all the horrible events that took place.
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Alicyn
9/3/2017 03:34:10 pm
I never really thought about her arm being the unhealable wound, but also like her arm the town will never be the same or fixed. They are all so messed up from Chambliss.
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9/1/2017 10:34:21 am
I think the main archetype in this novel is good vs. evil. We mentioned in the discussion yesterday that many Christ references were made. When you put that together, you think God is good and the Devil is evil. Jess was potreyed as Jesus in this book as seeing he got the splinter in his hand. Chambliss is represented as the devil in this book by the way they have him described by his arm being badly burned. When you think of hell and the devil fire is often thought of to correspond. To add to that, Chambliss killed a lot of people, including Jess's brother. Murder is an act of evil.
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Sarah Hartle
9/1/2017 10:39:29 am
I agree, Chambliss has done awful things. I think the total number he's killed is around at least 3 direct deaths, but also at least 1 indirect death (Ben's death). His 3 direct murders would be Stump, Molly, and the girl who died in the meth lab explosion that he was injured in.
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Morgan Johnson
9/1/2017 10:44:04 am
I agree! I wonder if it'd be just as evil to kill someone in an act of self defense. What if Jess hurt Chambliss when Chambliss found Stump underneath the window, spying? What if he killed him because he was scared?
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Kaci Cotton
9/1/2017 10:48:39 am
I agree and I do believe Chambliss and Jesse's allies represented the Devil vs God, otherwise known as evil and good. Though i wonder if Chambliss could have represented a victim at the end of the book
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Sarah Brown
9/1/2017 10:34:25 am
I think that one of the most important archetypes in this book was the Battle Between Good and Evil. The good side was made up of Adelaide, Jess, Stump, the Sheriff, Ben and the grandfather. The "evil" side was mostly Chambliss, and kind of Julie because she went along with him. Chambliss was manipulating people into following him and his evil ways, while those such as Adelaide and Ben fought back. I also think this archetype can be seen in the relationship between Julie and Ben because they seemed to be fighting almost all the time. Ben did not want Julie to go to the church, while she went anyways. In a way, I can see Julie as being the evil side (even though she was manipulated) and Ben as being the good side, especially when you consider Chambliss to be evil.
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Maggie Piazza
9/1/2017 10:39:30 am
I agree with Sarah. Like my answer, she mentioned how Chambliss was evil with manipulation through the church. She mentioned that Ben and Addie did fight back and were on the good side, which I did not mention in my original comment. Thinking more and more into the deeper aspects of the story by comparing them to archetypes is a real eye opener.
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Rachel Rodriguez
9/2/2017 01:04:55 pm
Great points! In the book we see Jess growing up and watching most of this go down. How would the book change if he would I said something? Or even just talked to his mom about what she was doing? Why do you think he said nothing?
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Eulalia Marsal
9/2/2017 03:02:58 pm
I think that nothing would really change because Julie believed in the church so much that even if Jess had told her the truth she wouldn't listen. I also think that Jess said noting because he was scared of what might happen to him and his brother and he was just a child so he didn't know for sure what was going on.
Morgan Johnson
9/1/2017 10:39:07 am
The Underworld-
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Sarah Hartle
9/1/2017 10:44:12 am
I love the final thought, you've come full circle! I also enjoy the detail in the analysis of Jimmy, and I agree with the connection of the church to the underworld, because few ever escaped, and if they did they had to deal with Carson (the devil figure).
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Lynn Bittorf
9/3/2017 07:49:20 pm
I love the "dead inside" analogy. And AHH the books connect !!
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Caitlyn Kinsey
9/4/2017 06:36:22 am
You have some really intense and thoughtful insight in this! I am definitely getting the feeling that Wiley Cash has demonstrated a strong resentment to the church through these connections and descriptions.
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Alexis B.
9/1/2017 10:40:57 am
In 'a land more kind than home" an archetype i noticed was the "evil character with an ultimately good heart." This character in my opinion is Julie. She can be perceived as evil by what she did in the book. She is partly responsible for her sons death, she cheated on her husband, and then she left her son and husband after the death of Stump. In my opinion, none of this was Julie's fault. Chambliss manipulated her and convinced her that he could heal stump. Knowing this, you can imagine that he also seduced her into falling in love with him and cheating on Ben. Also, he most likely convinced her to leave her family after Stump's death to run away with him. Julie had good intentions, however they were misguided by Chambliss.
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Rachel Rodriguez
9/2/2017 01:01:50 pm
I agree with you. Chambliss did manipulated Julie. We were all given freewill though. Do you think Julie knew what she was doing? Ultimately she chose to ignore the problem. How do you think the story would have changed if you stood up for what's right?
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Kaci Cotton
9/2/2017 07:48:42 pm
I never would have thought of Julie that way, but I do agree. I also believe that she was not the only one who took on that role. Jesse was also evil in a sense and good,
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Caitlyn Kinsey
9/4/2017 06:33:13 am
Personally, I am not convinced that she is completely not at fault for anything. She was definitely manipulated by Chambliss, however, everyone has freewill. She allowed herself to be so blinded with evil and ignored all the signs that showed things were wrong and didn't add up.
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Faith Anderson
9/1/2017 10:43:02 am
I think the Devil figure was a prominent archetype in this book. In the Bible, the Devil was a serpent who tempted Eve. This book used snakes to represent the Devil. Chambliss told his followers to "go against the Devil" and tempt him because it was "God's work". Wiley Cash used the Devil in this book as a way to represent fear. Chambliss used fear to control his people and to fit his own agenda.
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Morgan Johnson
9/1/2017 10:47:47 am
Do you think Mr. Cash has negative feelings against religion? He seems to have many biblical allusions in this book, and we heard that he had a bad experience in church- he didn't explain tho.
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Alexis Barnhart
9/2/2017 10:59:05 am
I agree with you Faith. The devil in this story is definitely Cambliss. Do you think there are any other devil figures in this story?
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Kaci Cotton
9/1/2017 10:44:53 am
I saw that the book really pressured the Battle between Good and Evil archetype from beginning to end. From the beginning, it's shown in Chambliss when he's convincing Molly to get bitten by the snake. She represents good while Chambliss represents evil, especially as he promises her good death and fortune if she does what he says. It is then shown again multiple times throughout the book. Another example of its presence would be when Jesse can't tel his mother about what he saw happening in the church to Stump. He wants to tell her so badly, but his morals and fear of punishment battle. However, the latter wins, thus making his decision evil
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Alicyn
9/3/2017 03:39:16 pm
I feel like the town is also good and Chambliss is evil, because he was telling them to do things that were good for the church. When in reality they were being corrupted by an evil
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Rachel Rodriguez
9/2/2017 12:57:21 pm
We can justify "A Land More Kind Than Home " as one giant archetype. One that sticks out the most is the constant Christ figures we see throughout the books. From the church being a dark close he'll with Chambliss in the middle, to Jess representing Christ with the wood stuck in his hand. We also see Chambliss using religion as a way for him to use people. In the bible we see the devil taking a form of a snake and tricking Eve and Adam. Chambliss does the exact same thing to Julie and everyone in the town. He gives the illusion that he is doing it all in the name of Christ, but he is using it for his own use.
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LALI
9/2/2017 02:51:09 pm
I agree with Rachel. Wiley Cash uses the characters of the book to represent religious terms but, How we can relationate Adelaide to a religious way? And why at the end of the book she helps Julie when she didn't do the right thing?
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Faith Anderson
9/2/2017 07:48:02 pm
I like the Christ figures you saw, and I like how you referenced the wood Jess had in his hand. I agree with the entire book being an archetype because there are so many different ones that tie in together.
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Sarah Brown
9/3/2017 03:57:10 pm
I think Ben could also play into this idea because he was always fighting against Chambliss. This is seen when he kills the snake in the yard (indirectly), all the times he doesn't want Julie to go to church, and when he eventually kills Chambliss. I'm not sure what the title would be for Ben, but I think he definitely could play a role as a Christ-like figure.
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Finnegan Hall
9/3/2017 09:12:28 pm
I agree Rachel, religion definitely played a huge part in a land more kind then home. I like the connection you made to the snake in the Bible convincing Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. Chambliss acts like he is trying to help the people but secretly he is destroying them.
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Eulalia Marsal
9/2/2017 03:24:14 pm
I think the main archetype in this novel is the light vs. darkness. The representation of the darkness in characters like Chambliss and the light in Jess. Also how they interact together and how one affect each other like we can see at the end of the book when Ben and Chambliss die.
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Anthony Laing
9/2/2017 07:35:42 pm
One of the more subtle but still important archetypes in this book is the blind character being Jess. In the book, closer to the end, Jess and Joe Bill are just being kids and playing basketball in Joe Bills back yard, and talking about Stump. Joe asks Jess if he thinks Stump had made it to Heaven. Jess responds with a confident yes, and when asked why he says he just knows. Meanwhile a storm cloud comes over head, foreshadowing (most likely) a bad event getting ready to occur. Then, Joe Bills brother gets home and realizes Joe touched his bb gun and shoots at him and Jess. Jess runs because he's scared and its starts pouring down rain, with Joe Bills brother and his friends shooting and chasing him. I feel as though this resembles, in a way, the blindness, and neglect to accept Jess' thoughts and the emotions he felt from the murder of Stump. The malicious actions of Scooter towards Jess could be seen as the anger Jess had for himself for not speaking up and telling his mom everything about yelling her name, or telling his dad about the affair with Chambliss because he didnt want to accept that anything was wrong. He ran from Scooter, as if he ran from the death of Stump. The rain, he said, surprised him, but he knew it was coming because earlier he heard the thunder, and saw the cloud, he was just distracted by other events. What if the rain was the death of stump, the cloud and thunder (the warning) was Stumps first "healing session". And it was there the whole time he just didn't focus on it and realize the signs. :/
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Faith Anderson
9/2/2017 07:44:51 pm
I never caught the warning and foreshadowing about the storm when I read the book. But I agree with the metaphor, and it makes me wonder if there were other warnings throughout the book that could've forshadowed anything else.
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Finnegan Hall
9/3/2017 09:07:06 pm
Anthony that is really deep. I didn't make that connection when I read the book. I agree with you though that Jess is just continuing to not really acknowledge Stumps death. This is probably because he feels partly responsible for it.
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Logan Riffey
9/3/2017 07:16:38 am
Time and time again, Carson Chambliss was displayed as a “devil figure”. At the beginning of the novel, Addie described Chambliss in a chilling way as he was in the middle of the church with a ray of light shining on his menacing look. His deformity adds to my claim. Not only was it caused through “sin” but it associates him with the Satan-look. His iron grip on the members of the church is unbreakble. He manipulates with a single sentence. His whole persona is based on the devil figure.
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Alicyn
9/3/2017 03:29:49 pm
One of the obvious ones is "the Unfaithful Wife", as you know, in the book Julie had cheated on Ben with Chambliss. Her cheating played out most of the book because it had caused some events in the book. Stump had died, Chambliss died, and Ben died. All of this happened because she was cheating. When Ben found out he shot her arm, and none of that would have happened if she wasn't cheating on him with Chambliss. It definitely is not the only archetype throughout the book, but it plays a huge part because at the end she lost people who meant something to her
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Sarah Brown
9/3/2017 03:48:12 pm
I agree with this comment because I think that a lot could have been avoided if Julie had been a faithful wife. I think it comes down to almost the beginning of the book when Stump saw Chambliss and Julie at his house and Chambliss came outside and found him. Perhaps, if that never happened Chambliss would never have even noticed Stump in the first place. Maybe he could have been saved in the beginning, and his death could have been avoided.
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Lynn Bittorf
9/3/2017 07:53:07 pm
It's really difficult for me to grasp why the people of the town are attracted to Chambliss.. I know that desperation can make people blind but like.. creepy snake dude in a really shady building..? Not your best choice Julie..
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Lynn Bittorf
9/3/2017 07:47:25 pm
The Devil Figure: definitely Chambliss. (crazy snake dude) Proven by the use of Serpents and the Hell analogy when Julie walked into the chruch "everything was dark and there was Chambliss in the middle of it all..."
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Sarah-Catherine Hartiens
9/4/2017 10:36:55 am
I strongly agree with Lynn. Chambliss was the "devil figure" in every way imaginable. He manipulated the people, twisted the rules of humanity, and tempted women to commit adultery. If searching in a dictionary, Mr. Chambliss could be listed as a synonym for the Devil.
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Finnegan Hall
9/3/2017 09:02:51 pm
I think Good vs Evil is a very prominent archetype in A land more kind then home. There is a struggle of Jess trying to stand up for Stump against Pastor Chambliss.
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Caitlyn Kinsey
9/4/2017 06:27:30 am
The biggest archetypes amongst the multitude of references to Christianity were Christ figures and the debate of Good vs. Evil. Examples of this were Jess' splinter in his hand and Carson' Chambliss' burnt arm. Wiley Cash clearly illustrated scenes of Hell and Biblical moments, as seen in the atmosphere of the church and the fact that after being deceived and killed by a snake in the church, the woman was laid in her garden. Undoubtedly, this correlates to the well-known story of Adam and Eve in the garden. In fact a number of "blinded people" were deceived by the devil (Carson Chambliss) and his evil corrupt ways. Although those were the prominent archetypes, there were certainly many others.
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Sarah-Catherine Hartiens
9/4/2017 10:43:51 am
The Christ references in "a land more kind than home" are overabundant. Cash highlights many Biblical stories as Caitlyn exemplifies, but are they in a positive light? I am still quite confused as to whether Cash is intrigued by the Bible and wants to use these historical events in his stories or if his intentions are to mock the Bible.
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Sarah-Catherine Hartiens
9/4/2017 10:32:36 am
Wiley Cash displays himself as the king of archetypes in "a land more kind than home" by successfully implementing many different techniques. One archetype he strongly used was "hunting group of companions." Chambliss was ultimately a leader of an army hunting to "heal" humans in their community. While it is gruesome to imagine them as a hunting group scouring the lands for humans to kill, it is a true description of their "church." This goes hand-in-hand with the theme of individual versus collective guilt. They were collectively guilty for killing Stump since they were all part of Chambliss's hunting group. His congregation was friends in the face of fear. Does this make it acceptable or even worse?
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